Boy, am I having issues.
Fluff-wise, I'm keen to keep my light company as a light company (no vehicles) and from tinkering and playing around with ideas, lists and practice games I'm finding it hard to convince myself that an all-infantry force is as viable as it was under the old codex. I ought to point out that I'm still trying to work a basic list without special characters, just for comparison's sake (but see below).
My first reaction was to assume I was simply mourning the loss of the flexibility from the old Light Infantry doctrine, but I think it's something else: although my infantry are slightly more numerous these days points-wise, they're markedly more fragile...especially my poor ol' heavy weapons teams. Their specific weakness in the face of Str6+ weapons is compounded by the army's generally lower Ld.
Mind you, this seems to be somewhat balanced by the spectacularly fun (and reassuringly fluffy) special weapons squads! Asfter all, I've been having great fun with both flamer squads and melta gun/demo charge combos.
Please don't think Drax is being stubborn and not embracing the changes embodied by the new Codex - it's just that I'm trying to enjoy a successful and fluffy inf-only army and...well, I'm simply less convinced than I used to be.
The options I've been trying so far for my light company include:
(a) three platoons of two inf squads w. attached hvy and spec. squads (3 of 2+)
(b) two platoons of three inf squads w. attached hvy and spec. squads (2 of 3+)
and - the fluffiest (and costliest) -
(c) three platoons of three inf squads w. attached hvy and spec. squads (3 of 3+).
I used to use one inf company (3 of 3) and elements of a separate heavy weapons company for fire support: now the fire support must be organic to the company. I quite like that...although it does mean that my platoons can't easily be equipped in a uniform way. So, I guess for fluffy battles I'll probably go for 3 of 3+ weighing in at a little over 1400pts (or 1500 with a Commissar Lord)...
...But I think Drax is going to have to start playing mixed lists more often. With 55pt chimeras and some interesting new options, I'd be a fool not to. Multitudes of veterans and stormtroopers beckon too, and I reckon I'll soon be trying out more special characters.
Watch this space...
- Drax.
I think your problem is that you liked the old codex way too much my friend! That, and you appear not to like change. I can only offer a small amount of advice, if you could call it that... Don't settle on anything just yet, but try various infantry lists. Trial and error! I really think you'd enjoy a huge amount of tanks more than you think. Especially with my rolls...
ReplyDeleteMy word verification is badvesti... I think that's a hint to Catachans.
Sorry I cant really comment on your post, I have no idea!
ReplyDeleteI rely on you for my IG knowledge!
I am replying to your comment on my blog earlier.
I noticed you were a teacher and your telling me not to revise too hard!
Bad teach.. bad! :P
My exams last till 1st June.
Oooh I shouldnt of called my Dark Angels the Sirens.... hah.. typical.
Thanks for your comment, *munches on random bits from his free hamper*
I can certainly understand the desire to keep to your favorite fluff. But how about this... if a light infantry company runs into something it can't handle, something too heavy, what would they do? Call in the big guns! You could have your tanks be a completely separate affair fluff-wise. In a lot of the Black Library books I've read, there are companies from worlds that seem to only supply heavy support. You could keep your light guys, start a new tank company and put them on the same list. They would still be two different companies fluff-wise though. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteWant something nice and fluffy AND awesome. Just add some Vendetta's to your list to transport your 'elite' veteran squads...
ReplyDeleteFairly fluffy, plus the Vendetta with 3 twin-linked lascannons at 130pts is a steal! Better (and cheaper) than three sentinels (even scout ones...) - the vendetta is also fluff wise 'a transport' - so it doesn't break the 'light infantry' approach, while adding some durable and tough anti-tank options.
9 enough for you?
Plus the Valk's beautiful and as it doesn't come with lascannons - it's an opportunity to convert a goodun.
ReplyDeleteWhat'ya reckon Drax?
Thanks, all,
ReplyDelete@73rd: Yes - you're probably right. I know the old codex was fundamentally flawed and Guardsmen too reliable, but I did enjoy the kind of lists I could create without making 'killer' lists. Now that is an interesting feature of the new 'dex...
@Farske: Thanks, and good luck with it all.
@Suneokun: I'm tremendously excited by the prospect of both Valks and Vendettas (not least because they cost not much more than an equipped chimera under the old codex!) and plan to but at least three of them...but alas! I simply have no money for them at the moment, and little prospect of getting much more. Damnit!
@Geek: That is precisely why I already have a separate armoured force (6 assorted Leman Russes which I've now totalled at a convenient 1000pts - a little pricey en masse but fun) and a separate mechanised battalion which is really good fun to play.
Of course though, it makes sense to use a combined-arms force against what is mostly a combined-arms enemy and I anticipate using mixed lists more often for practical purposes now.
I guess I just have to wrap my head around an infantry commander being lent a tank from here, a sentinel from there and a lone(?) artillery piece from there...even as part of the 'bigger picture' this is still jarring slightly.
I suppose it's simply the hodge-podge, shoe-string nature of combat in the 41st Millennium...
NEVER MIND! I am not stubborn, and despite 73rd's understandable observation I can embrace change - I just need to keep fiddling and tinkering.
If I build it, they will come.
- Drax.
You forget about the FOC and orders!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, IG can't hit anything. So I like templates. Lots of templates. This brings me to the missle launcher. Anti-infantry and anti-armor. A wonderful gift.
I've sat three squads of ML teams in the back near one of my HQ choices. That's 12 S8 shots with a possibile 8 of them being twin-linked. Armor has nothing compared to that.
BUT, get yourself ANOTHER command squad beefed up for front-line work with a couple of vet squads with plasma. Walk forward with a meat sheild squad to soak the assaults and you have ANOTHER two orders you can freely give. Have a platoon with a gunline in mid-field firing two shots a turn (and providing cover saves for the heavy weapon teams).
Orders, orders, and orders. Orders are what wins for an all infantry squad. It's soooo funny playing against Marines with all of their armor having lascannons. They can only take out one guy with a lascannon.
And don't forget the marine-killing storm troopers. Bring them in reserves wherever the problem area is. Even a couple of 5 man squads will change the game.
I think both IG extremes (all-infantry or all-armor) are SOOO much more playable with the new codex. I actually play both ways so the other players in my team never know which way I'm going.
I suggest you play a couple of games with a squad or two of LRs, get the big template shooting out of your system, then get back to playing infantry.
3 platoons of 2. You don't want
ReplyDeletespecial characters, so you need
another platoon commander to
give orders. I'm still redoing
my missile launcher teams to be
on the bigger bases, so haven't
used new codex yet. Good luck,
Admiral
Further to my previous post, I'm seriously considering dropping all the heavy weapons and converting the lot to the lowly mortar. Mortar spam is cheap and ridiculously effective with no downsides. With the nerfing of the heavy weapon team every direct fire squad becomes an easy target for every Tau missile pod, eldar scatter laser or Ork Deffgun - they die far two quickly. Even heavy bolters in the lines are pretty useless. My preference - buy tanks.
ReplyDeleteA Hydra is the same price as 6 men with three autocannons - it comes with 2 longer range autocannons which are twinlinked. giving you 3 hits a turn - an identicle hit rate to three autocannons. Plus a heavy bolter... And it's a touch tougher too and can be upgraded with stealth etc.
Between Hydra, Griffon (3 S6 reroll to hit barrage ordance templates for 225?!?) and some Vendettas for anti-tank, who needs heavy weapon teams?
Thanks, Aki and Menos,
ReplyDeleteAnd Suneokun: what can I say? - I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say. Mortars really have come into their own now, and they're really good fun to fire with too. I love my griffons and hydras do look very tempting.
And - naturally - the vendettas!
Now...if only I didn't have so many heavy weapons squads...
if you're wanting to buy 3 valks, i would definately recommend you check out wayland games for their valkyrie deal, 3 for £75
ReplyDeleteWagner Valkyrie Bundle:
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/bundles/wagner-valkyrie-bundle/prod_3888.html
and i would suggest using these to add that punch to your light infantry. make all the troops foot slog it to the frontline, make them carry all the gear and the guns.
then have the "toy soldier" stormtroopers fly in on spangly aircraft. earning themselves a sea of middle fingers from the other troops
im only going to be using my valks with my stormtroopers for fluff reasons mainly, even considering giving them a specific paint scheme to keep them separate from the normal troops (but that does mean repainting them)
loving the dedication to thelight infantry though mate, im a total tread head so couldnt do it myself, but i do love massed infantry :)
I'm with you mate. I had the idea when I started guard of a LI force based around the camo cloaks and LI doc's but that's no longer viable.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to pull off an all infantry force, then you're going to have to invest heavily in specials to get the mobility you want.
As was said before, it's all down to the orders now. I think it's going to take some time to get used to this new codex.
Sorry, gotta do a quick post for my buddy at http://www.GiftsforGeeks.org.uk - totally comparable prices on three Valks and you can buy them individually... @ £25.69 each...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/p/product/0903211378-IMPERIAL+GUARD+VALKYRIE/
Nicely done, Drax! Your blog has been consistently excellent, and in fact it was your Wyvern conversion that was the catalyst for me to start a blog of my own. I'll tell you, it's done wonders for my enthusiasm in the hobby, as well as setting goals for myself to actually get everything painted!
ReplyDelete...Of course, it's also giving me all sorts of urges to start new projects rather than finish all the ones I have already!
Keep up the great work, can't wait to see what you come up with next!