Thursday, 16 April 2009

107 Premature Deliberation

This is a long post with no pictures. Just so you know! A glossary and links for reference may be found on the right for your convenience.

Hullo, mes amis;

Like almost every other Guardsman and his dog out there, I've been tying myself in knots thinking about the new codex. I know some have had the power to resist and wait for the release, but I have the breaking strain of a Kit-Kat, so my poor old mind's been awhirl.

NB: My entire force as it currently stands, can be explored here.

My conundra are as follows:
  1. No 'more Light Infantry' doctrine;
  2. No more widespread use of Ld 9 from a vox-network/'Leadership' rule combination;
  3. No more discreet heavy weapons platoons.
Now I've thought a lot about this so far, and mapped out umpteen different OrBats, and what follows are my main initial ideas, based around the fact that I've really enjoyed the fluffiness (and successes) of my all-infantry 'Light Infantry' force:


1Pl (tactical):
3 Inf Sections w. spec wpn
Missile Launcher Section
Autocannon Section
Heavy Bolter Section

2Pl (tactical):
3 Inf Sections w. spec wpn
Missile Launcher Section
Autocannon Section
Heavy Bolter Section

3Pl (support):
3 Inf Sections w. spec wpn
Lascannon Section
Mortar Section
Mortar Section

4Pl (support):
3 Inf Sections w. spec wpn
Lascannon Section

Mortar Section
Mortar Section

This is the core of my force, and upto now has made up one full rifle company and one full fire support company: a set-up I'd grown to like a lot. It contained a full vox-net, 6 Pl officers and 2 Coy officers - I'd grown to rely on my vox and officers to keep my lads together.

Now I could happily (and readily) divide the list above into 2 companies - not least because Coy HQs seem both cheaper and better than they were. This would give me 6 officers in total for this lot - which should be enough. Hopefully. We'll see.

The idea is that rather than being flexible at company level, the regiment is now far more flexible at platoon level. A single platoon is now a more viable force - albeit more pricey, pointswise - and the support platoons are there for back-up or more specialised weaponry. It may even be that the companies are themselves structurally flexible, though I'm less sure about this. It's likely that I'll put one 'tactical' and one 'support' platoon into each company. That'd make sense.

Obviously, heavy weapons sections can be omitted as required to save points...


My main alternative to the OrBat above is the inclusion of two 'flamer' (spec wpn) sections - maybe one for each of the 'tactical' platoons. I've loved the use of these little bugbears, and they could be even more effective now...tee-hee!

I've also considered rearranging 3 and 4 pl into a 'lascannon' platoon and a 'mortar' platoon (I'm a big fan of mortar platoons) but these would be less flexible, and I like the idea of the companies being the same.

OTHER UNITS (assorted FOC):

Hardened Veteran Platoon (AKA "X" Platoon):
- 3 sections, probably equipped for a range of different roles. I love converting veterans!

Stormtrooper Platoon (AKA "Flash" Platoon):
- 3 sections of old 'beret' strormtroopers - probably equipped for anti-tank/anti-MEQ roles.

NB: I plan to build three valkyries (and a vendetta) to transport one of the above platoons. It's worth noting that it would seem a basic Vets squad mounted in a valkyrie should cost about the same as one of my current Armoured Fist squads!

Non-ratling snipers:
I have ten snipers - they'll probably operate in a single section, though that may change for Apoc. missions.

Ogryns and Rough Riders:
Meh. I have a unit of both of these, but I don't know if they'll see the field this side of apocalypse.

New/special characters:
I'm going to have to see the complete details for these. That bastard Creed's going to have to make an appearance just because his rules are so great, but I'm not a great fan of the model. There's likely to be an astropath (sanctioned psyker model), and the master of ordnance would be a great boon to an infantry force (my self-build model). Anyone know what happens if you have two astropaths?


I'm a little disappointed that tanks have become more expensive, but it's great to see the chimera has got a decent price at last.

My light vehicles (of 1st Bn) will remain almost exactly the same:
HQ salamander
A/F Platoon in 4 chimera transports
2 hellhounds (I may add one to make three!)
2 S-P artillery units (likely to remain my griffons; but again I may add one!)
4 sentinels - we'll see about their role/equipment.

As for my Leman Russes, I'm in no rush to change them. The MBTs are still solid; the exterminators are now even more kick-ass; and the annihilators still aren't in the codex. I like the new rules: less so the new prices.

In the future, I'll probably invest in some new variants; or at least some new turrets.


I don't think Drax'll be seeing much of these:
  1. Squads of pskers (great idea; very powerful, but just not very 'Cadian 24th'. I don't really do psykers);
  2. Conscripts and...
  3. Penal troops. The Glorious 24th are a professional force.

Well, that gives me four standard platoons, a veteran platoon, a stormtrooper platoon, an armoured fist platoon, assorted specialists, all my light vehicles and some kick-ass tanks. And hopefully some close air support! To make it work, I think I'll need to buy another twenty infantry models. And some valks, given time and money enough. No rush, eh?

I'll still be fielding a shooty army; it'll still be mostly inf-only (although I appreciate the new codex makes for better mixed lists) and I'll be able to field more men for fewer points.

On the downside, my beloved vox network will be more-or-less redundant, and I can't see how I can ever get my lads back to their halcyon days of infiltration.

Thanks for your patience, Any thoughts, perchance?

- Drax


  1. Does the new codex give the guard any help with the kill points? Or does each FOC of Infantry you are thinking of using amounting to like 6-8 kill points.

  2. Good question.

    As far as I know, point-for-point I'll be fielding more units, but fewer officers.

    Under the current rules, all command squads are worth 2KPs, as the officers count as characters.

    In the new codex, they don't - and I'll have fewer of them too.

    Mind you, I've played my all-inf force (as it is) thrice with kill points, and I've won one and drawn two, so I'm not overly worried!

    Thanks for reading!

  3. "Professionals..." Not just anyone can sign up.

    We are Gentlemen here.

    Man am I gad that I don't have to go through this like you IG guys.

  4. I've not even started thinking about my IG minis and what combination they might someday be fielded in? I have looked through the book and am taken with that Iron Hand Straken fellow. His stats make him look like he would make a good body guard for Nork!

  5. why not play exclusivly hardened vets/storm troopers, as I assume both will have infiltrate...

  6. Thanks, Chaps.

    @ Geek: I like the look of Straken - except that my Coy Comd squads try to stay out of combat where possible. It's a shame Nork's doubled in price too, points-wise, as I like the conversion I made for him.

    @ Lord: I'm still firing blind - having not seen the codex yet, I've been using the info collated by The Dude on Warseer and reproduced elsewhere. I understand it's fairly accurate though, and so far, I've only seen options for scouting or deep-striking.

    Neither's quite the same as infiltration, and it seems to get quite fussy with the involvement of the new characters too.

    If anyone's able to shed a little light on this, I'd really welcome it!


    - Drax.

  7. I should point out that I plan to enable my stormtroopers to deep strike if they're not being airlifted in.

  8. I would include the Ogryns because they have got much better in the new codex.

  9. Your ideas look solid, I suppose it just depends on points costing, etc... as to whether you can fit the stuff in.

    I was quite shocked when it finally hit me that heavy weapon teams are going to be three-shot plasma'd to death from now on... Maybe mortars are the new kings?

  10. good thoughts Drax. I know you share my pain.

    I'm very tempted to not use Heavy Weapon Squads due to insta-kill from S6+. That coupled with Ld7 is kinda rough. It's been one of Sandwyrm's major laments, since he used more HW squads.

    I will probably have more Vet squads to house my HW's. I like having more wounds to protect them, and the meager increase to Ld8.

    losing infiltrate except for the one upgrade character is rough though.

    Al-raheem making a platoon outflank will be nice though. Take an Astropath in your HQ, and you've got a good chance of most of them coming in early, and Al-raheem giving the re-roll to come in where you want them.

  11. @ Farmpunk:

    "losing infiltrate except for the one upgrade character is rough though."

    - Que? Which character is it who grants this? - Or do you mean G/Sgt Harker?

  12. I meant Harker, but I couldn't remember his name.

    I will probably use Harker in every list I make. I will probably end up using Bastonne as well, since he makes your Vets immediately regroup, and can give an order to his vet squad.

    I think Ld is going to be a problem for the new IG. Figuring out new ways around the Ld problem will be interesting.

  13. Yees, it's horrible what's happening now. I've painted my Guardsmen up and now I'll have to reorganise them into new squads. Which involves scratching off a few transfers...

    Not to mention the shopping that has to be done.

    Ld isn't going to be a problem. We all get a sarge with Ld8 in normal squads now, you still have rerolls and you have an order that instantly rallies a squad. Also Commisar Lord grants his Ld 10 to all units within 6", not that bad, really.

    Guard gets one more way to counter KPs, it can merge infantry squads of one platoon any way it wishes, so it can create a single 50-man squad!

    Two Astropaths would indeed stack. Hullo reserves coming out on 2+ in 2nd turn! Ogryns are rather meh, with their point cost and I never was a fan of them fluff-wise. But myself, I'm going to field at least one squad of psykers. I love their fluff AND they're horribly good.

  14. Vox networks, in my opinion, will be just as useful as in the 3rd/4th codex. The reason being is that they allow you to re-roll the leadership rolls for orders. If you think about it, you will be using orders for your infantry when you really need them and you want to be assured you pass that order. SO why not spend the extra 5 points for one of those puppies in your squads? I know I sure will.

    Shame about the no psyker squad thing, personally I'm a huge fan of them (their powers are awesome!) but inclusion into a list is about personal preference, i understand ;)

    Stormtroopers are really expensive, they look to me like what Sternguard are for Space Marines: shiny toys, but mediocre performance for their points. If used correctly as a compliment, I could see a squad, maybe two, working pretty well. I'll be testing a squad out in my first game with the Valhallans, but I'm not expecting anything mind-blowing.

    Also, as Hal'jin said, the new "Combined Squads" rule for Infantry Squads makes it the perfect way to combat "Da Green Tide". 50 guardsmen in ONE SQUAD with lasguns and flamers? YES PLEASE! (not to mention you only get 1KP for killing off those 50 guys too!!)

  15. @ Hal'jin,

    At least I won't have to change transfers - my squad designations are on the reverse of the troopers' bases.

    I'm a little concerned about Ld. I'll miss the blanket Ld9 I've been enjoying from officers and vox-net, but then again, I'm happy that (actually) guardsmen just shouldn't be overly brave! In fact, it's been weird to be able to rely upon them to NOT run away!

    @ Kevin:

    The thing that gets me with the voxes is that (under normal circumstances) they're only useful at very short range (6 or 12"). Why? Surely that defeats the idea of carrying radios! It might have made more sense to have made the Ld re-roll dependent on proximity to the HQ. Then the short range would've made sense.

    STILL, Ld8 sergeants are great (if surprising) and I'm not planning on altering my models to remove vox packs!

    I'm unlikely to really use stormtroopers at all for 16pts per model, but I do like their transport rules, and actually they'll still be great (better) in a deep-striking anti-tank role: 5 guys re-rolling deep-strikes whilst toting 2 meltas and a plasma pistol!

    My jury's still out on amalgamating squads into large squads. It's great for a gunline, but (bizarrely for an inf-only army) I've always tried to avoid this where possible.

    Can anyone outline some of the downsides to huge combined infantry sections? Surely it's just asking for them to be bogged down in an unwinnable assault (or worse - getting slaughtered in assualt)?

    - Drax.

  16. The good thing is you issue an order to whole, say, 40 men at once and that they're just 1KP.

    Downside is if you fail that Ld test for orders you won't have much else to order around. Also, if you fail morale.. But that's why you should have a standard still. And of course losing 3-4 Guardsmen in assault while killing less will make you test Ld with bad modifiers and that could mean you're dead in sweeping advance. That's why I'll be taking a Comissar per platoon (maybe two, vut I doubt I can find the points), with Stubborn and Ld 9 they'll hold out nicely. You can give the Comissar a power weapon and that could make you eventually get that assault done with. (Sadly, can't give him a fist)
    Of course one drawback is still present, your entire gunline is bogged down in combat and can't shoot.
    But when you think of all those lasguns issuing 3 shots each at the incoming ork horde...

  17. As to the combined squads, I personally love them but could see how they could bog an army down. Downsides of putting squads together include getting stuck in assault (though commissar helps immensely with this) and having a large footprint to protect/conceal. Of course if you use those special weapon squads or, my personal fave, platoon command squads with flamers, you should have plenty of close ranged support for your huge infantry block.

    Might mostly be useful for gunline, but could also be useful for an assaulting army with flamers/grenade launchers backed by heavy weapons teams/mobilized vets with melta/plas weapons.

    As far as the leadership question goes, the only ones that I see that applying to are the heavy weapon squads, as they're stuck with ld 7 unless you have a commissar lord. More of a reason to approve the use of dirt cheap and effective mortar squads and keep em out of sight

  18. Yo Drax thank you so much for your comment on how to make it so you can click to see enlarged pics!!
    Ive changed the layout and now you can see the Chimera close up as you requested so head over to mine when you get a chance!
    More posts will follow as Ive yet to put the vision slits on etc.
    Thanks again!!

    Craig @ cadian8th


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